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Thank you so much, Lefteris!

>>"Maybe we can persuade some people to be kind by giving them the data and tell them that by being kind they are actually selfish!"

I mean - that might work! Or at least, really smart people being in charge of things who know how to trick sociopathically selfish rich people into doing good things for the common good. I mean, if conspiracy theories are going to be flying around *anyway*, why not ACTUALLY make a conspiracy that does a lot of good?

I think I'm only half joking about this. Perhaps this is how megalomaniacs get started...

>>"But because of one thing or another they ended up mostly being afraid of what they were reading about the vaccines so they didn't trust anything they saw."

Yeah, that fear is the key. Fear kills curiosity. That's such an important point. When people are too fearful to ask questions... And fear destroys trust.

But you did exactly the right thing in response (of course you did, you're really good at your job!): you listened. That was Guzmán's point - that until we all feel heard, properly heard and understood, we remain rigid (and fearful) in our opinions. So much could be fixed in society with exactly that kind of listening in exactly the right places, instead of the combative, shaming, point-scoring methods of "communication" that currently dominate...

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