Also--have you all read A Long Way to a Small Angry Planet by Becky Chambers? My son loves that book and I loved it too--the AI comment made me think about it--the idea of AI actually becoming something more loving and loyal--I've thought about that too and there are elements of that in that book--it's really such a great, thoughtful, creative, work-- just really well done.
I enjoy that book so much! I actually love the second one even more, "A Closed and Common Orbit," which starts with the AI who got a human body form and is struggling to figure out how to be a person in it, being helped by a human who herself was raised by a stranded ship's AI. It's fascinating and a great story. I guess what it means to be a person might be my favorite underlying story-question.
I think you will enjoy these very much. The Monk & Robot series is a little *too* happy for my taste, though pleasant to read, but she is a really good writer and these books are good.
Love this! And this gem: One of the questions I've been stuck on quite a bit is why trespass laws are so vigorously enforced in the U.S.–you can't set foot on land owned by someone else–but pollution, basically a property right, the right to pollute, is allowed to trespass into our bodies as well as into the commons.
Good to see you, Francia! And oh my goodness, YES. I'm so glad that spoke to someone. I've had that question written in large letters on my marker board of ideas for . . . I want to say 2 or 3 years now. WHY? Because it is the case. I think I asked it in passing once in a newsletter post, and someone responded about legal questions whether we "own" ourselves or what that would even mean. Which, um, . . . to say we don't own ourselves seems to invite disaster that humanity has already seen over and over. So if we do, if we truly own ourselves, what does that mean and maybe from a more practical perspective in what ways do various legal systems reflect that, or not? (I haven't gotten to this part of the research for the book yet, but it really doesn't feel like the legal system reflects self-ownership or self-determination in most ways.) And if it did truly reflect that, then what would broader societal rights look like that don't infringe on every person's self-ownership? (I can think of a lot of changes!)
I'm grateful to be meeting (and now subscribing to) Antonia through this interview. I'm a brit living in the US and very much involved in the concepts of commons and ownership here. I keep tripping over them in my work on sea level rise, drinking water, and more. I have some thoughts on why private property rights are such a sacred cow in the US (literally, when it comes to grazing rights!). Would love to nerd out with you some time on that.
Oh, wonderful! Cheers, John. Yes, I'm interested in those issues too - but Antonia is firmly the expert here, and I think you'll find a ton to think about if you read her archives of On the Commons, and also her annotated reading at Threadable. (But yes, always happy to chuck ideas around...)
So glad to meet you, John! I'm thrilled every time I hear of someone working on or involved with the commons and property rights, especially in the U.S. where they are, as you very aptly point out, a sacred cow. Also, I don't know if you're familiar with the podcasts Frontiers of Communing (with David Bollier, who's written a number of books on the commons) and In Common, but I've found them very educational.
Yes, I'm familiar with David Bollier. So great to connect with another commoner. This is a great way to frame some of the issues I'm working on. I might just post about that. Either way, yes, let's nerd!
May 20, 2023·edited May 20, 2023Liked by Mike Sowden
Since Battlestar Galactica was mentioned, E. J. Olmos also played Gaff in Blade Runner ( " You've done a man's job, sir ! " implying that Deckard was a Replicant, & supposedly came up with " Cityspeak " ).
He gave Tricia Helfer a DVD of Blade Runner to help her play a Cylon.
Is that 6 degrees of separation or less ?
Science fiction is something akin to mythology or folklore, except most of the events are set in our future or in alternate futures, unlike Arthurian lore or the Epic of Gilgamesh, or several other examples that I could pull out of the air.
Yes, the origins of sci fi and fantasy are an academic discipline in themselves - so much repurposing and borrowing (and stealing) of ideas. And that's another thing I love about these genres: the unashamed borrowing/honouring/fan-fictioning of other people's work. Like musicians riffing off each other. And surely that's always the case - originality is really a casserole of other people's ideas presented in a novel way, and we should always give credit to that reality, and to the people it honours, whenever we can...
May 20, 2023·edited May 20, 2023Liked by Mike Sowden
I'm still addicted to H.G. Welles as well as Jules Verne. Their work still stands the test of time, as well as Edgar Rice Burroughs John Carter of Mars, John Carter was almost like an ancestor of ANOTHER strange visitor from another planet, Superman, yet John Carter is never cited as an influence on the Superman mythos as such.
Star Trek is simply Jason & the Argonauts with advanced technology. Or perhaps Gilgamesh with a starship. & NO Bull of Heaven or Enkidu.
They had a series on Fox based on WOTW the original movie. Youtube has a few entire episodes, Season 1 was tad too gory & violent, then season 2 did a shift to a world where governments were in chaos, & a new species of aliens killed off the " Martians ". I think that the 1st aliens were spies for the 2nd group. Anyway, the sudden transition to a chaotic world made little sense.
It gets " better " - the aliens take over human hosts after being revived by radioactive waste. The radiation makes the human hosts start to resemble zombies. They act like these beings aren't going to stick out. Weird.
Love GHW and JV think that they were definitely at the vanguard. Also this NK I Robot is a classic that really hits home now with the AI talks we are currently having.
Jon - I believe that true AI will only come about when humans join with their artificial creations, which is happening with " smart " prosthetics. It's happening. Now where do I get some electromechanical prosthetic limbs, or sign up for them ?
Progress is inevitable. Anybody standing in its path could be trampled ( figuratively, at least ) & / or left behind as an anachronistic Luddite.
I think that it would be interesting if nanotechnology could be perfected. It could supplement the body's immune system, at least in theory. I've had a few story ideas floating through my mind about nanotechnology improving both humanity and the environment.
Embrace not attack - I have a cousin who's a conservative Evangelical who is very suspicious of progress. She even avoided getting a Covid vaccination out of suspicion for a LONG TIME. Can't trust that thar science witchcraft, y'all. 😉😆 Jest keep a - prayin'.
I did not even know that detail and am so happy that I now do, thank you! (Also, why did they cancel Caprica? I was really enjoying that prequel show to Battlestar Galactica.)
Also, you probably know this, but Xena: Warrior Princess = Lucy Lawless = Cylon Model 3 in Battlestar Galactica
I THINK that Caprica didn't have the space battles & action level that BSG did, so the suits decided to yank the plug on the series. I liked it. Anything that I like gets the Kiss O' Death. I'm still waiting to see if THE ORVILLE got axed. Hulu still just had season / series one, the last time that I checked.
Eureka, which I enjoyed for its gentle escapism without much drama; Firefly obviously; Caprica, which despite the lack of battles had some very compelling characters; V, which my spouse loved; not to mention The Expanse, which only got so many seasons because Amazon picked it up after it was canceled!
I really, really liked Eureka. One of the only things I've ever seen that convincingly pulled off creating an alternate universe/timeline. At least when they canceled it they made an effort to finish the overall storyline.
Yes, it was a great show, fresh, and original, but no one I know watched it. No surprise, it got cancelled, sadly. In terms of alternate or parallel universe/timeline I found Fringe appealing, too. A trope explored a great many times, e.g. Counterpart (2017), also cancelled.
You mentioned Lost in Space (reboot) which I switched off halfway through the first episode and to think this lasted 3 seasons...
Remember the series Alien Nation on Fox ? It got 1 season. It was a commentary on how we respond to the " Other ", be they Vietnamese / Laotian / Cambodian, Cuban, Haitian or strange bald spotty - headed extraterrestrials. If they were going to do a reboot of a good science fiction series, Alien Nation would be MY choice rather than Stargate or Babylon 5 or YET ANOTHER Star Trek.
"The other side of Artificial Intelligence–what if it's actually kinder and more loyal than any of us are capable of being?"
I'd have a 50p bet on that being right. If AI still functions on a basis of logic then I think my 50p is safe.
Re proprioception - thanks for the warning. I shall steer clear of space flight because I'm already lacking to the point where I have to look to see where my arms are in my yoga lessons. E is A is *so* useful!
I will happily bet ANOTHER 50p on this, bringing the total to a mighty quid.
I really want to sit down and write about this coherently at some point, but here's some of my initial thinking:
- humanity develops super-smart AI
- super-smart AI concludes that if everyone is fighting, the limited natural resources of the world will be wasted on pointless power struggles that are super-pointless considering everyone dies in the long run
- super-smart AI applies massive brain to find ways to stop everyone fighting.
This is where dystopian fiction usually comes up with the "AI enslaves humanity" argument. But what if it's really "AI tricks humanity into not being a small-minded jackass for a change with all the big political longterm stuff"?
I learned about the astronaut proprioception thing in a short book by the former head of NASA's life sciences division, Joan Vernikos. The point of the book was to focus on the effects of sedentary lifestyles by showing the similarities to the physical effects of spending too much time in space. I kind of like it because she's clear about some of the effects of, say, being stuck in a hospital bed for weeks, but she also doesn't overdo it and seems to believe firmly that what helps our bodies be healthy isn't strenuous, hard exercise, but constant and small daily movements that keep our bodies interacting with gravity, whatever our mobility abilities are. Like leg raises from a chair, that kind of thing.
NASA is doing a lot of cool stuff, including Qlev and EM shielding (that cosmic radiation is a major pita for Homo Sapiens). As fellow SciFi fans and Futurism inclined, if you were to check, what do you think of my S-zer0 (Quantum Levitation pod)?
Being a person who writes on the global and local commons, I of course start asking about where supply resources are extracted and how, who builds and who benefits, can we build the transit roads to be pedestrian and wildlife friendly, etc., etc., but the sci fi lover in me just says: COOL. (And what a great production. Really pleasant to watch.) Let's go with the sci fi lover on this one!
I read the Readings on Land ownership yesterday and was surprised that no one commented on it. I am meaning to, not in the context of Land Back (I am no expert on the matter) but on the general principle. Who owns lands and why? Boggles the mind. I discussed this with friends while we stayed at a nice Airbnb, sizeable plot, big house, very old house newly renovated. Must have been in the family for generations...
Anyway, I will get back to that superb article of yours asap.
Thanks for watching Antonia! Happy you like it and you raise excellent points, which I contemplated for some time, in the context of a future earth (500+ years from now), sans the ozone layer, being driven underground as a species, reemerging thanks to advanced tech and EM shielding against cosmic radiation, etc. I am looking to do a podcast with a couple of people from various fields in regard to such a scenario and what could/would need to happen for Homo Sapiens not only to survive but to evolve past such cataclysmic events.
That sounds FUN. I love that kind of imaginative speculation. There is so much to play with and explore (back to sci fi again ...).
I need to write a different intro to those Land Ownership readings to explain it more. I did a reading circle for the Threadable app (which Mike got me into; he's done ones on geology and colours), on land ownership last year, and since I don't have any other social media I wrote companion Substack posts on each reading selection for people who didn't want to or couldn't access the Threadable app. So that's a pinned post of all those entries. Not that I'm suggesting you go down my own obsessive rabbit holes, but within the posts themselves you'll find some good discussions. I am really, really stuck on that question: Who owns land and why? The whole concept gets pretty fragile the deeper you go.
It is the most fun! Speculative Fiction, my favourite kind of fun. If I do one in terms of resources and environment maybe you'd be interested to lend your expertise? Could be fun!
Thanks for the reading suggestions. It's a fascinating topic and aggravating at the same time and when you go back far enough to ask why the only answer you get is... well someone came first... or is there a legit reason someone owns any land? Please do tell!
I love both of you! I can’t believe I’m so far behind on your newsletters which are both ones I want to read. They demand my attention so I don’t want to read them when I’m skimming, which I so often am. Thank you for sharing this conversation and reminding me of my own love of stories and love-hate with science fiction. My dad loved sci-fi. The original Star Trek was on at 6 pm weeknights when I was young (already reruns) and my dad insisted on watching it during dinner. I loved it but also wished my dads attention wasn’t always elsewhere. For my 8th birthday we went to the premier of Star Wars (nice of them to release the first three all timed with my birthdays). We went to the big fancy theater downtown and waited in line forever, but I was totally in love. Wish I hadn’t thrown out all my original memorabilia, but who knew in the 80s? My dad read the lord of the rings books to my mom and I so I got them in true storytelling form. Ah, what nice memories! Thanks for this discussion.
What great memories to share, Karen, thank you! (And we're all always behind on newsletters, which at this point I'm choosing to think says a lovely thing about how much interesting and fun stuff there is out there -- I just was looking at your most recent this morning while listening to sandhill cranes! Some of the birds you posted I'd never even heard of, but that's often true.)
This reminds me of a NOT science fiction book, a young adult novel called "Darius the Great Is Not Okay," which I really, really love and recommend to everyone. One of the interesting threads in it is that the main character and his father have a little ritual of watching one episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation together. It's a big thing because they used to be close but grew more distant, and are both struggling with depression. I liked how the author used Star Trek as a weak-strong binding between the two of them.
Great interview Mike. I enjoy On the Commons immensely so I managed to get through this very long treatise :) -- My favorite sci-fi writer is Ted Chiang. Tying it back to "On the Commons", property rights etc -- I think nearly every aspect of our wonderful natural system framed by the atmosphere (living stuff) that is in overshoot is due to either lack of regulation or ill-thought regulation. Poverty, child mortality, water, air, extractive industries, CO2, single-use waste are some working examples. I am an optimist and that means the problems are NOT INTRACTABLE. Solutions that minimize what we do not want or that put humanity at risk should be our focus. I love Sci-Fi that focuses on possible alternate cultural organization that leads to a world more in balance.
Mark, I have TWO books by Ted Chiang on my to-read pile for the Threadable project but also someone in town, a friend of my sister's, has been highly recommending him. I'm looking forward to those.
"Sci-Fi that focuses on possible alternate cultural organization that leads to a world more in balance" -- YES.
My spouse might object. 😂 But we might be able to work something out if you and Brent can swing taking my son to Japan with you if it's on your itinerary . . . he's dying to go and has been doing Japanese online on his own.
I love all of these! And am so glad someone else has read Arkady Martine. A Memory Called Empire and A Desolation Called Peace honestly blew my mind. Like turned it inside out and reshaped it. Incredible books. And, yet again, what caught me tight was the central question of who gets to be considered a "person" within the Teixcalaanli Empire -- the further you are from the center of the empire, the less of a person you're considered to be. I'm not sure I even know how fascinated I was with that question until I read those books. But also the whole role of poetry in the empire's power and language structures -- who thinks of that kind of thing?! Not me, but I'm glad someone does.
They're probably all great as well. The ones I've read certainly are (they're also extremely deftly plotted - he writes in big action set pieces, but the characters don't get drowned out in the process).
Thank you so much, Nicci! Antonia is THE BEST. I take no credit, and since this is my newsletter and I get to set the rules, that's just how it is. No arguments from anyone pls.
Really enjoyed reading this. My wife thinks sci-fi and fantasy are stories for kids because it’s not real. For me it’s a lot of what you said in this piece. Taking the story out of reality but still making it relevant to our world.
I just finished The Expanse series. Really enjoyed them and the story actually ended which seems to be getting rarer. I love the ideas in sci-fi . Alastair Reynolds: What if aliens appeared with the some purpose of wiping us out - taking entire planets apart to make the machinery of our destruction? Neal Asher - though his are the lone hero and explosions type - but great action, technology and alien creatures. William Gibson - closer to home but I love the way he weaves a story, with it barely making sense at first.
Some explain the workings of the tech, others use it like magic to support the story.
I just love the ideas it all brings.
Oh and I just re-read Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy about 25 years after first reading it. That’s just bonkers but so packed with ideas!
Oh yes. William Gibson's "Neuromancer" was part of my sci fi upbringing, back in the eighties - an incredible work of imagination and writing style, I loved it so much. So strange to think, too, that it was pre-Internet, with all its visual depictions of cyberspace, of vast virtual constructions and hack programs burrowing into walls of "Ice" and all of it. The haunting messiness of it all, the beauty of ugly urban sprawl. I'm so overdue a re-read through early Gibson, and I haven't read his last couple of trilogies...
And Alastair Reynolds: I'm listening to "Redemption Ark" right now! I enjoy his work, especially the scale of it, but I find it very cold and glittery in places. His style is like a more humane Peter F. Hamilton (whose work I gave up on because it leaned so hard into horror and cruelty and extremely unlikeable male viewpoints). A definite love of the horror side of sci fi, with both those writers, but Reynolds is the one I'm finding worth sticking with...
Neal Asher! Haven't read any, but back when I had a blog, he left (or someone with his name left) a very irate comment saying "It's NEAL not Neil". That's as far as I've got with his work. 😆
Oooohhh ... well, I won't argue with your wife but I'm definitely on your side. Science fiction is what is imagined of the real we can see and what might become. I think it's amazing stuff.
I love the ideas all of these bring, too. And agree about The Expanse, it's so rare to get a full narrative arc out of these shows anymore because they keep getting canceled. I really hope someone hops in and eventually finishes the *other* narrative arc that's in the books, but as it is I was satisfied with it.
A few years ago I picked up Hitchhiker's on New Year's Eve and started reading it in front of the wood stove. My dad and stepmom have a tradition of taking all the available grandkids that night, and have done it every year since, and so every year since, I start rereading Hitchhiker's on New Year's Eve and have come to really look forward to that. And then of course get pulled into the rest of the books ...
Well this just confirms why I adore you and Antonia--Austen, Alien, Tolkien, and Next Gen? Hell yes! :) My people!
When I worked on an archaeological dig in Jordan the summer out of college, I had that first feeling of finding my people because all of us loved next gen. That summer was the series finale (ahem, yes, I'm old), and a friend of someone sent us a VHS (see aforesaid aside, re: old) tape snail mail (yes! old! ack!) so that we could all watch it together. Such a bittersweet fond memory of us all geeking out to the last episode together after days in the desert. 💜
Also a thing I love about genre fiction: the fan club, fan-convention, 4-hr-conversations side of things. That kind of outwardly-shown enthusiasm certainly exists with other forms of literature - see the whole Brontë tourism industry as an example: https://www.houseandgarden.co.uk/article/inside-the-yorkshire-home-of-the-bronte-sisters - but arguably, nobody shamelessly nerds out more goofily than us shameless goofy nerds*. While toxic fandom is always certainly a thing, whatever-the-opposite-is seems to be much more of a thing, I'd say?
May 20, 2023·edited May 20, 2023Liked by Mike Sowden
I am also old. 😉 But I knew you were my people already. 🧡
What a great story. I've always wanted to go to Jordan and Syria, I don't know why. It's amazing you got to do a dig there but watching the series finale of TNG together like that is such a perfect cherry on top.
Someday we can all get together and reminisce about VHS tapes (which I still have a bunch of but nothing functional to play them on) and cassette tapes and corded phones ...
May 20, 2023·edited May 20, 2023Liked by Mike Sowden
For sci-fi reflecting commentary back on contemporary society, it was good to see Atwood in the list of authors, but where were Iain M Banks' Culture novels? How would society work of there were no shortages, if people changed gender at will, if everyone used an artificial language that helped frame thought unambiguously? What would our reactions to such a depicted society tell us about our own society.
"it is what Banks has called a “post-scarcity” society, in which everyone has everything he or she wants. A Culture citizen can live in any environment, under any climate, in any kind of dwelling, and can wear any kind of clothes and own any imaginable objects. Sexual prowess and pleasure are ensured by genetic modification and precisely infused drugs: glands secrete at the citizens’ commands to produce whatever mood or energy is needed. The Culture has no laws, and nothing that we would call a government. All power remains in the hands of the omnipotent and omnibenevolent Minds. As Banks himself has written, “Briefly, nothing and nobody in the Culture is exploited.”"
So .. no more excuses. Gender, race, wealth, .. and every other polarising division no longer apply.
How do you feel about that?
Quoted text from an article by Alan Jacobs in The New Atlantis , summer 2009, here:
Oh, I *love* the Culture novels. Great point, Mike. I've been holding onto the final two Culture books that I haven't yet read, because I kinda don't want to read them, because then I wouldn't have any more to read. (RIP Iain.) Yes - agreed, Banks firmly deserves a place at this table for his madly-huge-scale ideas and his thoughtfulness. It's also fascinating how his view of the Culture was mostly, but *not quite*, Utopian - he was deeply interested in how it was maintained by its secret power structures, some of them essentially working in an authoritarian manner. At what price paradise? and all that...
(I actually met him in person at a book signing in Hull, and felt very pleased at myself when I made him laugh by making a rude joke about William Shatner's "Tek" novels. I regret nothing.)
(and I regret not mentioning LeGuin .. I did think about it).
I'll dig in deeper (aka read one of his books :) but 2140 is a monstrous distance away.
Asimov's father was born before the Wright Brothers flew, and lived to see the Moon landings. 2140 is a LONG way away ...
I would incline towards the shorter term future. Part of the pleasure of the John Brunner quartet of dystopias is the intermingling of the dystopian with the familiar in the near-future. Stand on Zanzibar (on population) works really well because it can express many different ideas very densely by invoking multiple viewpoints/ different styles -- factual, discursive, commentary. We are constantly presented with things that we can recognise, interspersed with (crediblly possible) dystopian events.
(coincidentally, I am currently reading his The Sheep Look Up (on pollution))
May 20, 2023·edited May 20, 2023Liked by Mike Sowden
The lack of Banks is my fault, because I've never been able to get through one of his science fiction books. I think they're *great*, but the violence and cruelty are just too much for me to handle. See also: why I've never seen an episode of Game of Thrones, which I'd probably otherwise love. Though I just read that New Atlantis article and am very intrigued.
It sounds like an effort to play out the philosophy of John Rawls, or at least one aspect, which you can never really have enough of: If you knew that your position, conditions, socioeconomic circumstances, gender, etc., were to be completely left up to chance, what kind of society would you create? The idea being that if you have no advantages yourself and no idea if you'll gain any, you'd probably create the fairest one possible. Science fiction is a fun way to explore philosophy, "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas" being a classic case in point.
There's also a more recent YA science fiction book series starting with "Exo," by Fonda Lee, in which an alien species has taken over Earth and made most people's lives *better* but there's still a strong resistance movement because the people don't want to just have good lives; they want to be free. I've only read the first one so don't know exactly how that storyline plays out but find it a really interesting premise. What does it mean to be human? What do we really want? Do we even know?
The Player of Games is the one that I have re-read the most times. The idea of rules and norms in games and in societies. What happens when two strongly opposed world views -- strongly centralised, militaristic empire vs decentralised laissez-faire loose philosophy -- face off? Can you model the clash of different civilisation views?
Is the whole novel is working at a meta-level with the Culture is using the protagonist as a pawn in a game it has been planning across 60 years? The use of games as a central theme allows Banks to talk about different systems, with his usual acknowledgement that the raw in tooth and claw has its attractions.
Yes, there are darker tinged, cruel, elements to his writing (which I do not like), but I take that as a sign of his engagement with (and anger at) at societal wrongs.
There are also purely playful passages that contribute mood to scene and much joy to the reader without advancing the plot. The maze prison is described in the Player of Games as:
"the severity of your crime defines where you are put inside the maze, and being able to move towards the exit depends on your abilty to solve ethical challenges, so the theory goes, that if you can find your way to the exit, then you are reformed. Does it work? Well, the rich bribe their way out so, yes, for them it works.".
This has no relevance to the plot, and is never mentioned again, but that's two pages of joy (and totally consistent with Banks the human being).
That sounds absolutely wonderful. And I admire Banks a LOT — I’ve read some of his mysteries. This is totally a “me” issue with the violence thing. No matter how well used, I just can’t handle it well. Back in the day when I still had network television and advertisements, I pretty much couldn’t watch TV for the entire month of October because even the snippets of advertising for upcoming horror movies would give me nightmares.
But I so, so love the description of this book. It sounds incredibly compelling.
Some might say that I am (overly?) squeamish, but I'd say that I have a very vivid and visual imagination. I seem to experience even fictional events in a more visceral way than most (apparently). I consider other people to be the odd ones :)
You're definitely selling me on this book! I'll have to save it for after I read this other pile of sci fi but it's nice to have something to look forward to.
Funny you mention PADDs, so did I on my recent podcast with the Quantum Levitation pod designer (On Creation and Meaning). Did you know that there were no automatic sliding doors before Star Trek? Fascinating, as Spock would have said. Good interview!
Also--have you all read A Long Way to a Small Angry Planet by Becky Chambers? My son loves that book and I loved it too--the AI comment made me think about it--the idea of AI actually becoming something more loving and loyal--I've thought about that too and there are elements of that in that book--it's really such a great, thoughtful, creative, work-- just really well done.
I enjoy that book so much! I actually love the second one even more, "A Closed and Common Orbit," which starts with the AI who got a human body form and is struggling to figure out how to be a person in it, being helped by a human who herself was raised by a stranded ship's AI. It's fascinating and a great story. I guess what it means to be a person might be my favorite underlying story-question.
Still haven't got there! I know the broad storylines, but have all the books waiting for me to open them and instantly grow obsessed with them.
I think you will enjoy these very much. The Monk & Robot series is a little *too* happy for my taste, though pleasant to read, but she is a really good writer and these books are good.
Love this! And this gem: One of the questions I've been stuck on quite a bit is why trespass laws are so vigorously enforced in the U.S.–you can't set foot on land owned by someone else–but pollution, basically a property right, the right to pollute, is allowed to trespass into our bodies as well as into the commons.
Yes! I'll definitely leave that one to Antonia to answer...
Good to see you, Francia! And oh my goodness, YES. I'm so glad that spoke to someone. I've had that question written in large letters on my marker board of ideas for . . . I want to say 2 or 3 years now. WHY? Because it is the case. I think I asked it in passing once in a newsletter post, and someone responded about legal questions whether we "own" ourselves or what that would even mean. Which, um, . . . to say we don't own ourselves seems to invite disaster that humanity has already seen over and over. So if we do, if we truly own ourselves, what does that mean and maybe from a more practical perspective in what ways do various legal systems reflect that, or not? (I haven't gotten to this part of the research for the book yet, but it really doesn't feel like the legal system reflects self-ownership or self-determination in most ways.) And if it did truly reflect that, then what would broader societal rights look like that don't infringe on every person's self-ownership? (I can think of a lot of changes!)
Keep rethinking the system! We need voices coming with solutions to societal ailments. I look forward to reading more!
I'm grateful to be meeting (and now subscribing to) Antonia through this interview. I'm a brit living in the US and very much involved in the concepts of commons and ownership here. I keep tripping over them in my work on sea level rise, drinking water, and more. I have some thoughts on why private property rights are such a sacred cow in the US (literally, when it comes to grazing rights!). Would love to nerd out with you some time on that.
Oh, wonderful! Cheers, John. Yes, I'm interested in those issues too - but Antonia is firmly the expert here, and I think you'll find a ton to think about if you read her archives of On the Commons, and also her annotated reading at Threadable. (But yes, always happy to chuck ideas around...)
Yes, over there already and digging in... Thanks for the intro.
So glad to meet you, John! I'm thrilled every time I hear of someone working on or involved with the commons and property rights, especially in the U.S. where they are, as you very aptly point out, a sacred cow. Also, I don't know if you're familiar with the podcasts Frontiers of Communing (with David Bollier, who's written a number of books on the commons) and In Common, but I've found them very educational.
Would nerd out on these things anytime!
Yes, I'm familiar with David Bollier. So great to connect with another commoner. This is a great way to frame some of the issues I'm working on. I might just post about that. Either way, yes, let's nerd!
Yes please!
Since Battlestar Galactica was mentioned, E. J. Olmos also played Gaff in Blade Runner ( " You've done a man's job, sir ! " implying that Deckard was a Replicant, & supposedly came up with " Cityspeak " ).
He gave Tricia Helfer a DVD of Blade Runner to help her play a Cylon.
Is that 6 degrees of separation or less ?
Science fiction is something akin to mythology or folklore, except most of the events are set in our future or in alternate futures, unlike Arthurian lore or the Epic of Gilgamesh, or several other examples that I could pull out of the air.
I love that anecdote so much. Thanks, Daniel.
Yes, the origins of sci fi and fantasy are an academic discipline in themselves - so much repurposing and borrowing (and stealing) of ideas. And that's another thing I love about these genres: the unashamed borrowing/honouring/fan-fictioning of other people's work. Like musicians riffing off each other. And surely that's always the case - originality is really a casserole of other people's ideas presented in a novel way, and we should always give credit to that reality, and to the people it honours, whenever we can...
I'm still addicted to H.G. Welles as well as Jules Verne. Their work still stands the test of time, as well as Edgar Rice Burroughs John Carter of Mars, John Carter was almost like an ancestor of ANOTHER strange visitor from another planet, Superman, yet John Carter is never cited as an influence on the Superman mythos as such.
Star Trek is simply Jason & the Argonauts with advanced technology. Or perhaps Gilgamesh with a starship. & NO Bull of Heaven or Enkidu.
I've been running into more and more mentions of War of the Worlds recently, and think I need to go reread that.
They had a series on Fox based on WOTW the original movie. Youtube has a few entire episodes, Season 1 was tad too gory & violent, then season 2 did a shift to a world where governments were in chaos, & a new species of aliens killed off the " Martians ". I think that the 1st aliens were spies for the 2nd group. Anyway, the sudden transition to a chaotic world made little sense.
That sounds . . . meh?
It gets " better " - the aliens take over human hosts after being revived by radioactive waste. The radiation makes the human hosts start to resemble zombies. They act like these beings aren't going to stick out. Weird.
Love GHW and JV think that they were definitely at the vanguard. Also this NK I Robot is a classic that really hits home now with the AI talks we are currently having.
Jon - I believe that true AI will only come about when humans join with their artificial creations, which is happening with " smart " prosthetics. It's happening. Now where do I get some electromechanical prosthetic limbs, or sign up for them ?
Very true. Embrace not attack.
Progress is inevitable. Anybody standing in its path could be trampled ( figuratively, at least ) & / or left behind as an anachronistic Luddite.
I think that it would be interesting if nanotechnology could be perfected. It could supplement the body's immune system, at least in theory. I've had a few story ideas floating through my mind about nanotechnology improving both humanity and the environment.
Embrace not attack - I have a cousin who's a conservative Evangelical who is very suspicious of progress. She even avoided getting a Covid vaccination out of suspicion for a LONG TIME. Can't trust that thar science witchcraft, y'all. 😉😆 Jest keep a - prayin'.
I did not even know that detail and am so happy that I now do, thank you! (Also, why did they cancel Caprica? I was really enjoying that prequel show to Battlestar Galactica.)
Also, you probably know this, but Xena: Warrior Princess = Lucy Lawless = Cylon Model 3 in Battlestar Galactica
I THINK that Caprica didn't have the space battles & action level that BSG did, so the suits decided to yank the plug on the series. I liked it. Anything that I like gets the Kiss O' Death. I'm still waiting to see if THE ORVILLE got axed. Hulu still just had season / series one, the last time that I checked.
& yes, Xena was a different Cylon prototype. 😉
Eureka, which I enjoyed for its gentle escapism without much drama; Firefly obviously; Caprica, which despite the lack of battles had some very compelling characters; V, which my spouse loved; not to mention The Expanse, which only got so many seasons because Amazon picked it up after it was canceled!
Someone who enjoys Eureka. Excellent! Such an inventive and funny show.
I really, really liked Eureka. One of the only things I've ever seen that convincingly pulled off creating an alternate universe/timeline. At least when they canceled it they made an effort to finish the overall storyline.
Yes, it was a great show, fresh, and original, but no one I know watched it. No surprise, it got cancelled, sadly. In terms of alternate or parallel universe/timeline I found Fringe appealing, too. A trope explored a great many times, e.g. Counterpart (2017), also cancelled.
You mentioned Lost in Space (reboot) which I switched off halfway through the first episode and to think this lasted 3 seasons...
Remember the series Alien Nation on Fox ? It got 1 season. It was a commentary on how we respond to the " Other ", be they Vietnamese / Laotian / Cambodian, Cuban, Haitian or strange bald spotty - headed extraterrestrials. If they were going to do a reboot of a good science fiction series, Alien Nation would be MY choice rather than Stargate or Babylon 5 or YET ANOTHER Star Trek.
I love Star Trek and also we do not really need another Star Trek, I agree! So many stories out there to tell.
I lovvvvvvved THE EXPANSE, so naturally it got put behind a paywall. They're going to reboot Babylon 5. God, make them stop.....
"The other side of Artificial Intelligence–what if it's actually kinder and more loyal than any of us are capable of being?"
I'd have a 50p bet on that being right. If AI still functions on a basis of logic then I think my 50p is safe.
Re proprioception - thanks for the warning. I shall steer clear of space flight because I'm already lacking to the point where I have to look to see where my arms are in my yoga lessons. E is A is *so* useful!
I will happily bet ANOTHER 50p on this, bringing the total to a mighty quid.
I really want to sit down and write about this coherently at some point, but here's some of my initial thinking:
- humanity develops super-smart AI
- super-smart AI concludes that if everyone is fighting, the limited natural resources of the world will be wasted on pointless power struggles that are super-pointless considering everyone dies in the long run
- super-smart AI applies massive brain to find ways to stop everyone fighting.
This is where dystopian fiction usually comes up with the "AI enslaves humanity" argument. But what if it's really "AI tricks humanity into not being a small-minded jackass for a change with all the big political longterm stuff"?
It's worth thinking about / 50p, anyway....
You never know what you'll learn here!
I learned about the astronaut proprioception thing in a short book by the former head of NASA's life sciences division, Joan Vernikos. The point of the book was to focus on the effects of sedentary lifestyles by showing the similarities to the physical effects of spending too much time in space. I kind of like it because she's clear about some of the effects of, say, being stuck in a hospital bed for weeks, but she also doesn't overdo it and seems to believe firmly that what helps our bodies be healthy isn't strenuous, hard exercise, but constant and small daily movements that keep our bodies interacting with gravity, whatever our mobility abilities are. Like leg raises from a chair, that kind of thing.
NASA is doing a lot of cool stuff, including Qlev and EM shielding (that cosmic radiation is a major pita for Homo Sapiens). As fellow SciFi fans and Futurism inclined, if you were to check, what do you think of my S-zer0 (Quantum Levitation pod)?
Being a person who writes on the global and local commons, I of course start asking about where supply resources are extracted and how, who builds and who benefits, can we build the transit roads to be pedestrian and wildlife friendly, etc., etc., but the sci fi lover in me just says: COOL. (And what a great production. Really pleasant to watch.) Let's go with the sci fi lover on this one!
I read the Readings on Land ownership yesterday and was surprised that no one commented on it. I am meaning to, not in the context of Land Back (I am no expert on the matter) but on the general principle. Who owns lands and why? Boggles the mind. I discussed this with friends while we stayed at a nice Airbnb, sizeable plot, big house, very old house newly renovated. Must have been in the family for generations...
Anyway, I will get back to that superb article of yours asap.
Thanks for watching Antonia! Happy you like it and you raise excellent points, which I contemplated for some time, in the context of a future earth (500+ years from now), sans the ozone layer, being driven underground as a species, reemerging thanks to advanced tech and EM shielding against cosmic radiation, etc. I am looking to do a podcast with a couple of people from various fields in regard to such a scenario and what could/would need to happen for Homo Sapiens not only to survive but to evolve past such cataclysmic events.
That sounds FUN. I love that kind of imaginative speculation. There is so much to play with and explore (back to sci fi again ...).
I need to write a different intro to those Land Ownership readings to explain it more. I did a reading circle for the Threadable app (which Mike got me into; he's done ones on geology and colours), on land ownership last year, and since I don't have any other social media I wrote companion Substack posts on each reading selection for people who didn't want to or couldn't access the Threadable app. So that's a pinned post of all those entries. Not that I'm suggesting you go down my own obsessive rabbit holes, but within the posts themselves you'll find some good discussions. I am really, really stuck on that question: Who owns land and why? The whole concept gets pretty fragile the deeper you go.
It is the most fun! Speculative Fiction, my favourite kind of fun. If I do one in terms of resources and environment maybe you'd be interested to lend your expertise? Could be fun!
Thanks for the reading suggestions. It's a fascinating topic and aggravating at the same time and when you go back far enough to ask why the only answer you get is... well someone came first... or is there a legit reason someone owns any land? Please do tell!
I love both of you! I can’t believe I’m so far behind on your newsletters which are both ones I want to read. They demand my attention so I don’t want to read them when I’m skimming, which I so often am. Thank you for sharing this conversation and reminding me of my own love of stories and love-hate with science fiction. My dad loved sci-fi. The original Star Trek was on at 6 pm weeknights when I was young (already reruns) and my dad insisted on watching it during dinner. I loved it but also wished my dads attention wasn’t always elsewhere. For my 8th birthday we went to the premier of Star Wars (nice of them to release the first three all timed with my birthdays). We went to the big fancy theater downtown and waited in line forever, but I was totally in love. Wish I hadn’t thrown out all my original memorabilia, but who knew in the 80s? My dad read the lord of the rings books to my mom and I so I got them in true storytelling form. Ah, what nice memories! Thanks for this discussion.
What great memories to share, Karen, thank you! (And we're all always behind on newsletters, which at this point I'm choosing to think says a lovely thing about how much interesting and fun stuff there is out there -- I just was looking at your most recent this morning while listening to sandhill cranes! Some of the birds you posted I'd never even heard of, but that's often true.)
This reminds me of a NOT science fiction book, a young adult novel called "Darius the Great Is Not Okay," which I really, really love and recommend to everyone. One of the interesting threads in it is that the main character and his father have a little ritual of watching one episode of Star Trek: The Next Generation together. It's a big thing because they used to be close but grew more distant, and are both struggling with depression. I liked how the author used Star Trek as a weak-strong binding between the two of them.
How cool that your dad read LOTR to your mom!
Great interview Mike. I enjoy On the Commons immensely so I managed to get through this very long treatise :) -- My favorite sci-fi writer is Ted Chiang. Tying it back to "On the Commons", property rights etc -- I think nearly every aspect of our wonderful natural system framed by the atmosphere (living stuff) that is in overshoot is due to either lack of regulation or ill-thought regulation. Poverty, child mortality, water, air, extractive industries, CO2, single-use waste are some working examples. I am an optimist and that means the problems are NOT INTRACTABLE. Solutions that minimize what we do not want or that put humanity at risk should be our focus. I love Sci-Fi that focuses on possible alternate cultural organization that leads to a world more in balance.
Mark, I have TWO books by Ted Chiang on my to-read pile for the Threadable project but also someone in town, a friend of my sister's, has been highly recommending him. I'm looking forward to those.
"Sci-Fi that focuses on possible alternate cultural organization that leads to a world more in balance" -- YES.
I've read a few books that accumulate his short-stories. They are creative, exceptional premises. The best part is some of the best are 30-40 pages!
I'm excited to dig in!
"The Merchant and the Alchemist's Gate" is fantastic.
I look forward to needing out over it when I dive in!
Kim Stanley Robinson! Arkady Martine! Battlestar Galactica! Xena! Foundation!
I think Mike and Antonia should marry and adopt me.
My spouse might object. 😂 But we might be able to work something out if you and Brent can swing taking my son to Japan with you if it's on your itinerary . . . he's dying to go and has been doing Japanese online on his own.
I love all of these! And am so glad someone else has read Arkady Martine. A Memory Called Empire and A Desolation Called Peace honestly blew my mind. Like turned it inside out and reshaped it. Incredible books. And, yet again, what caught me tight was the central question of who gets to be considered a "person" within the Teixcalaanli Empire -- the further you are from the center of the empire, the less of a person you're considered to be. I'm not sure I even know how fascinated I was with that question until I read those books. But also the whole role of poetry in the empire's power and language structures -- who thinks of that kind of thing?! Not me, but I'm glad someone does.
Just leaving this here: https://expanse.fandom.com/wiki/Group_marriage
I wonder how George Clooney feels about this....
Hmmm ...
These are also the norm in the Murderbot world!
Regarding your son, deal. We're most likely headed there in a few months, if things work out. As for your spouse, let's just not tell him.
Speaking of mind-blowing books, have you read Adrian Tchaikovsky's Children of Time series? Speaking of having your mind turned inside out...
I'm on a Tchaikovsky tear right now. I love his work and there is a RIDICULOUS amount of it, because the man absolutely cannot stop writing.
He's amazing. Plus all of that incredible classical music he wrote. That man has mad skillz.
MICHAEL.
Yes? You had something to add?
😂
You're the third person to mention Tchaikovsky and I really need to pick those up!
My spouse might notice when I pack our son off to go hang out with you guys for a few months. 😂
According to his Fantastic Fiction page (https://www.fantasticfiction.com/t/adrian-tchaikovsky/) he's written 41 books since 2008.
This is absolutely bonkers.
They're probably all great as well. The ones I've read certainly are (they're also extremely deftly plotted - he writes in big action set pieces, but the characters don't get drowned out in the process).
That's ... uh ... <<scrambles around wondering what I've been doing with my life>>
Love this interview! And I also love broken earth 🤩😍
Thank you so much, Nicci! Antonia is THE BEST. I take no credit, and since this is my newsletter and I get to set the rules, that's just how it is. No arguments from anyone pls.
MIKE.
Me too!
Really enjoyed reading this. My wife thinks sci-fi and fantasy are stories for kids because it’s not real. For me it’s a lot of what you said in this piece. Taking the story out of reality but still making it relevant to our world.
I just finished The Expanse series. Really enjoyed them and the story actually ended which seems to be getting rarer. I love the ideas in sci-fi . Alastair Reynolds: What if aliens appeared with the some purpose of wiping us out - taking entire planets apart to make the machinery of our destruction? Neal Asher - though his are the lone hero and explosions type - but great action, technology and alien creatures. William Gibson - closer to home but I love the way he weaves a story, with it barely making sense at first.
Some explain the workings of the tech, others use it like magic to support the story.
I just love the ideas it all brings.
Oh and I just re-read Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy about 25 years after first reading it. That’s just bonkers but so packed with ideas!
Oh yes. William Gibson's "Neuromancer" was part of my sci fi upbringing, back in the eighties - an incredible work of imagination and writing style, I loved it so much. So strange to think, too, that it was pre-Internet, with all its visual depictions of cyberspace, of vast virtual constructions and hack programs burrowing into walls of "Ice" and all of it. The haunting messiness of it all, the beauty of ugly urban sprawl. I'm so overdue a re-read through early Gibson, and I haven't read his last couple of trilogies...
And Alastair Reynolds: I'm listening to "Redemption Ark" right now! I enjoy his work, especially the scale of it, but I find it very cold and glittery in places. His style is like a more humane Peter F. Hamilton (whose work I gave up on because it leaned so hard into horror and cruelty and extremely unlikeable male viewpoints). A definite love of the horror side of sci fi, with both those writers, but Reynolds is the one I'm finding worth sticking with...
Neal Asher! Haven't read any, but back when I had a blog, he left (or someone with his name left) a very irate comment saying "It's NEAL not Neil". That's as far as I've got with his work. 😆
Oooohhh ... well, I won't argue with your wife but I'm definitely on your side. Science fiction is what is imagined of the real we can see and what might become. I think it's amazing stuff.
I love the ideas all of these bring, too. And agree about The Expanse, it's so rare to get a full narrative arc out of these shows anymore because they keep getting canceled. I really hope someone hops in and eventually finishes the *other* narrative arc that's in the books, but as it is I was satisfied with it.
A few years ago I picked up Hitchhiker's on New Year's Eve and started reading it in front of the wood stove. My dad and stepmom have a tradition of taking all the available grandkids that night, and have done it every year since, and so every year since, I start rereading Hitchhiker's on New Year's Eve and have come to really look forward to that. And then of course get pulled into the rest of the books ...
Well this just confirms why I adore you and Antonia--Austen, Alien, Tolkien, and Next Gen? Hell yes! :) My people!
When I worked on an archaeological dig in Jordan the summer out of college, I had that first feeling of finding my people because all of us loved next gen. That summer was the series finale (ahem, yes, I'm old), and a friend of someone sent us a VHS (see aforesaid aside, re: old) tape snail mail (yes! old! ack!) so that we could all watch it together. Such a bittersweet fond memory of us all geeking out to the last episode together after days in the desert. 💜
SHARED VALUES FOR THE WIN.
Also a thing I love about genre fiction: the fan club, fan-convention, 4-hr-conversations side of things. That kind of outwardly-shown enthusiasm certainly exists with other forms of literature - see the whole Brontë tourism industry as an example: https://www.houseandgarden.co.uk/article/inside-the-yorkshire-home-of-the-bronte-sisters - but arguably, nobody shamelessly nerds out more goofily than us shameless goofy nerds*. While toxic fandom is always certainly a thing, whatever-the-opposite-is seems to be much more of a thing, I'd say?
*Playfully sophisticated intellectual titans.
so good. totally true. it’s a common thread that is instantly assuring to recognize. and i also full disclosure geek out over the brontës too....
I am also old. 😉 But I knew you were my people already. 🧡
What a great story. I've always wanted to go to Jordan and Syria, I don't know why. It's amazing you got to do a dig there but watching the series finale of TNG together like that is such a perfect cherry on top.
Someday we can all get together and reminisce about VHS tapes (which I still have a bunch of but nothing functional to play them on) and cassette tapes and corded phones ...
For sci-fi reflecting commentary back on contemporary society, it was good to see Atwood in the list of authors, but where were Iain M Banks' Culture novels? How would society work of there were no shortages, if people changed gender at will, if everyone used an artificial language that helped frame thought unambiguously? What would our reactions to such a depicted society tell us about our own society.
"it is what Banks has called a “post-scarcity” society, in which everyone has everything he or she wants. A Culture citizen can live in any environment, under any climate, in any kind of dwelling, and can wear any kind of clothes and own any imaginable objects. Sexual prowess and pleasure are ensured by genetic modification and precisely infused drugs: glands secrete at the citizens’ commands to produce whatever mood or energy is needed. The Culture has no laws, and nothing that we would call a government. All power remains in the hands of the omnipotent and omnibenevolent Minds. As Banks himself has written, “Briefly, nothing and nobody in the Culture is exploited.”"
So .. no more excuses. Gender, race, wealth, .. and every other polarising division no longer apply.
How do you feel about that?
Quoted text from an article by Alan Jacobs in The New Atlantis , summer 2009, here:
https://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/the-ambiguous-utopia-of-iain-m-banks
Oh, I *love* the Culture novels. Great point, Mike. I've been holding onto the final two Culture books that I haven't yet read, because I kinda don't want to read them, because then I wouldn't have any more to read. (RIP Iain.) Yes - agreed, Banks firmly deserves a place at this table for his madly-huge-scale ideas and his thoughtfulness. It's also fascinating how his view of the Culture was mostly, but *not quite*, Utopian - he was deeply interested in how it was maintained by its secret power structures, some of them essentially working in an authoritarian manner. At what price paradise? and all that...
(I actually met him in person at a book signing in Hull, and felt very pleased at myself when I made him laugh by making a rude joke about William Shatner's "Tek" novels. I regret nothing.)
Also, see what Kim Stanley Robinson says about Iain Banks here: https://www.polygon.com/2020/10/20/21525509/kim-stanley-robinson-interview-science-fiction-utopias He's definitely considered part of the pantheon.
Thanks for that link. Very interesting!
(and I regret not mentioning LeGuin .. I did think about it).
I'll dig in deeper (aka read one of his books :) but 2140 is a monstrous distance away.
Asimov's father was born before the Wright Brothers flew, and lived to see the Moon landings. 2140 is a LONG way away ...
I would incline towards the shorter term future. Part of the pleasure of the John Brunner quartet of dystopias is the intermingling of the dystopian with the familiar in the near-future. Stand on Zanzibar (on population) works really well because it can express many different ideas very densely by invoking multiple viewpoints/ different styles -- factual, discursive, commentary. We are constantly presented with things that we can recognise, interspersed with (crediblly possible) dystopian events.
(coincidentally, I am currently reading his The Sheep Look Up (on pollution))
The lack of Banks is my fault, because I've never been able to get through one of his science fiction books. I think they're *great*, but the violence and cruelty are just too much for me to handle. See also: why I've never seen an episode of Game of Thrones, which I'd probably otherwise love. Though I just read that New Atlantis article and am very intrigued.
It sounds like an effort to play out the philosophy of John Rawls, or at least one aspect, which you can never really have enough of: If you knew that your position, conditions, socioeconomic circumstances, gender, etc., were to be completely left up to chance, what kind of society would you create? The idea being that if you have no advantages yourself and no idea if you'll gain any, you'd probably create the fairest one possible. Science fiction is a fun way to explore philosophy, "The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas" being a classic case in point.
There's also a more recent YA science fiction book series starting with "Exo," by Fonda Lee, in which an alien species has taken over Earth and made most people's lives *better* but there's still a strong resistance movement because the people don't want to just have good lives; they want to be free. I've only read the first one so don't know exactly how that storyline plays out but find it a really interesting premise. What does it mean to be human? What do we really want? Do we even know?
The Player of Games is the one that I have re-read the most times. The idea of rules and norms in games and in societies. What happens when two strongly opposed world views -- strongly centralised, militaristic empire vs decentralised laissez-faire loose philosophy -- face off? Can you model the clash of different civilisation views?
Is the whole novel is working at a meta-level with the Culture is using the protagonist as a pawn in a game it has been planning across 60 years? The use of games as a central theme allows Banks to talk about different systems, with his usual acknowledgement that the raw in tooth and claw has its attractions.
Yes, there are darker tinged, cruel, elements to his writing (which I do not like), but I take that as a sign of his engagement with (and anger at) at societal wrongs.
There are also purely playful passages that contribute mood to scene and much joy to the reader without advancing the plot. The maze prison is described in the Player of Games as:
"the severity of your crime defines where you are put inside the maze, and being able to move towards the exit depends on your abilty to solve ethical challenges, so the theory goes, that if you can find your way to the exit, then you are reformed. Does it work? Well, the rich bribe their way out so, yes, for them it works.".
This has no relevance to the plot, and is never mentioned again, but that's two pages of joy (and totally consistent with Banks the human being).
That sounds absolutely wonderful. And I admire Banks a LOT — I’ve read some of his mysteries. This is totally a “me” issue with the violence thing. No matter how well used, I just can’t handle it well. Back in the day when I still had network television and advertisements, I pretty much couldn’t watch TV for the entire month of October because even the snippets of advertising for upcoming horror movies would give me nightmares.
But I so, so love the description of this book. It sounds incredibly compelling.
You are (absolutely) not alone!!
Some might say that I am (overly?) squeamish, but I'd say that I have a very vivid and visual imagination. I seem to experience even fictional events in a more visceral way than most (apparently). I consider other people to be the odd ones :)
You're definitely selling me on this book! I'll have to save it for after I read this other pile of sci fi but it's nice to have something to look forward to.
Funny you mention PADDs, so did I on my recent podcast with the Quantum Levitation pod designer (On Creation and Meaning). Did you know that there were no automatic sliding doors before Star Trek? Fascinating, as Spock would have said. Good interview!