Nice, Mike. I stew way too long over some inane trolling on my turf, and since I'm now writing mostly on Substack, I put their filter in the way: new commenters must be approved. Solved my troll issue immediately (though still a bit unclear to me if banning removes their comment from everyone's eyes or only mine…). The restaurant side piece was a hoot!
I think it removes all comments when you ban them! I remember when someone would be banned from Substack Office Hours and instantly all their previous comments would disappear. So I *think* that's what happens? Probably the best way to double-check is to ask a friend to see if they can still see the miscreants in your comment threads...
And yes - the stewing is the worst. It's also hijacking the healthy and virtuous side of our work ethic that cares about how our work is received - so when I see some advice along the lines of "oh, you just don't pay attention to comments" or "you shouldn't care about trolls so much, some people are idiots", that seems to be someone saying Hey, Stop Caring About Other Human Beings! But we shouldn't be told to care less, because caring more is the secret to doing a good job - the answer isn't leaning out, paying less attention, getting less emotionally invested. Your solution is the right one - stop them coming in, and turn it from a self-control issue (ie. your problem) into a no-access issue (ie. their problem). Good call.
You're correct: anyone banned loses all their comments, past and future included. Never bothered me, as their intent was always clear: dissembling and negativity. Some of the more creative would start a new account and try again, but this approval process stopped that ruse as well.
I’ve settled. Feels smaller now, although still far from pleasant. One friend’s comment was “Looks as though you saw her too clearly for her own comfort.” I thought that was interesting.
I worked as a comment moderator for right wing news sites on and off for a few years, and that taught me that for some people, making nasty comments on the internet is just their hobby. They get up in the morning and read their biased, salacious, cruel news, and make their provocative, angry comments, and then go and mow their lawns. And the news cycle moves on. I've had people attack me - and worse, be wrong about me - on the internet, which is a gross feeling, and sometimes I get enraged witnessing the sheer inhumanity of things people say about others, but I think #4 is the most important. I never engage with trolls anymore - my strategy is to go and say something nice somewhere else instead.
Blimey, that must have been a tough gig. Seeing that kind of recreational cruelty every day must have taken a toll. (Also on the people leaving the shitty comments, but - good luck to them, because if they're wanting other folk to care, they're picking exactly the wrong way to make that happen).
I've wondered for a while about the folk who moderate the BBC News comment threads, which always melt down into hyper-opinionated, hyper-cynical "those people are the worst" rants, almost always anonymously. Mucking out those stables every day must be hell - in a way you probably understand all too well.
But - this also clearly makes you a very good community moderator, because you've seen how bad it can get, you know what that looks like, and you know what a waste it is. So what would be your best advice for creating a positive, curious and respectful commenting environment? What tricks & tips have worked for you in defusing the worst idiots?
(And: have you ever written all this up as a full essay? I bet it would be fascinating to read and get a good bit of attention.)
It was tough! It got a bit easier once they brought in bots that got rid of the worst of it. But it was still inane and repetitive with a side of nastiness. Would highly not recommend that job to anyone! I admire people who moderate special interest forums voluntarily!
I think the best strategy for creating a positive and respectful commenting environment is to have a clear purpose and written rules, and stick to them. If it's a case of 'anything goes' then it will degenerate FAST and be near-impossible to rehabilitate. It is an exhausting task to moderate any kind of online forum.
I think in interactions where someone really disagrees with a comment and feels the need to counter what they've said, the most important thing is not to make ad hom attacks about the person. Only respond to what they've said rather than making statements about who they are and all the reasons they're wrong (i.e. 'you're ignorant', 'you're racist'). No matter how ignorant or racist they might be, it won't help get your point across and will be removed by any good moderator, as well as shutting down any chance of dialogue.
You're right, I should write about this at some point!
I luuuurve 'Hide for everyone'. I very rarely need it on Bluesky but I deployed it every bloomin' day on Threads (which rather explains why I am no longer there). The best bit about it was that having hidden it from myself too, I found I had often genuinely forgotten what on earth they said within hours. Ommmm....
Yes, Threads is a lot more chaotic in that regard - lots of engagement farmers, rage-baiters and meme-thieves at work these days, and just a vast amount of people choosing to reply to them, which is how I get to see the worst folk. If everyone stopped replying and started Blocking, it'd become a lot less fraught, I reckon...
And yes: isn't it amazing how blocking folk feels like just enough of a response to tick that box in our brains, so we can usually stop thinking about their nonsense? Nice when that happens.
Yes, if only we could find a real-life action that works the same way so we could stop churning and suffering the torment of l'esprit de l'escalier....even years later. (Or is that just me??). If anyone DOES know a neat psychological trick for that, please do share it.
It is the best. Oddly calming and Zen-like. It feels like going for a walk in the countryside with a black bin-liner and filling it with rubbish: a way of channelling the annoyance of seeing that informational litter strewn over your path, and feeling at the end like you nudged the needle just a tiny bit in the right direction, from "enraging eyesore" towards "interesting conversations".
A 4 or 5 course banquet as usual, Mike. There was one case back in the 80s ( I really need to check my sources, all I can be sure of is that it occurred in the latter part of the 20th century ) where some NIMROD tied a bunch of helium ( I'm guessing again but helium sounds the most likely ) balloons to a LAWN CHAIR & just keeps going up, then floated into restricted air space. The general consensus was that it was a damn stupid stunt & he could have frozen or asphyxiated OR BOTH.
Larry Walters - Proof that God looks out for idiots, kids & people who watch " Jackass " the tv series too many times. The Darwin Awards was perfectly designed for people such as him !
Nice one. Sometimes it’s the simple approaches that work best.
Take me back to the days of my ZX Spectrum, tin foil printer and no internet connection. Hate to say it, but Elite was better on Speccy and BBC Model B than it is now with all of its games console, internet goodness, and trolling.
I am a big fan of philosophical trolls like Diogenes the Cynic and art trolls like Maurizio Cattelan, who I suppose are not really acting in bad faith.
With online trolling, which I am lucky enough not to be subject to, I wonder to what extent people have developed antibodies to prevent the cortisol reaction you mention above? I feel utterly indifferent to trolls but remember being provoked in the past.
My sister and I use the phrase "Don't touch the poop" when thinking of engaging with trolls, it reminds you that if you do, you are also gonna get poop on you because you touched it.
Love “Cleanup on aisle 3”!!!
Hooray! I'm not the only one. Phew.
Nice, Mike. I stew way too long over some inane trolling on my turf, and since I'm now writing mostly on Substack, I put their filter in the way: new commenters must be approved. Solved my troll issue immediately (though still a bit unclear to me if banning removes their comment from everyone's eyes or only mine…). The restaurant side piece was a hoot!
I think it removes all comments when you ban them! I remember when someone would be banned from Substack Office Hours and instantly all their previous comments would disappear. So I *think* that's what happens? Probably the best way to double-check is to ask a friend to see if they can still see the miscreants in your comment threads...
And yes - the stewing is the worst. It's also hijacking the healthy and virtuous side of our work ethic that cares about how our work is received - so when I see some advice along the lines of "oh, you just don't pay attention to comments" or "you shouldn't care about trolls so much, some people are idiots", that seems to be someone saying Hey, Stop Caring About Other Human Beings! But we shouldn't be told to care less, because caring more is the secret to doing a good job - the answer isn't leaning out, paying less attention, getting less emotionally invested. Your solution is the right one - stop them coming in, and turn it from a self-control issue (ie. your problem) into a no-access issue (ie. their problem). Good call.
You're correct: anyone banned loses all their comments, past and future included. Never bothered me, as their intent was always clear: dissembling and negativity. Some of the more creative would start a new account and try again, but this approval process stopped that ruse as well.
Hmmm
Half a week after your own troll-tastic adventure, what are your thoughts on all this? (If you feel like sharing, that is.)
I’ve settled. Feels smaller now, although still far from pleasant. One friend’s comment was “Looks as though you saw her too clearly for her own comfort.” I thought that was interesting.
I’ve used your tip for hiding comments. A great little tool!
Agreed! It is the best. I don't think Substack Notes has anything similar, but it'd be great if it adopted it.
I worked as a comment moderator for right wing news sites on and off for a few years, and that taught me that for some people, making nasty comments on the internet is just their hobby. They get up in the morning and read their biased, salacious, cruel news, and make their provocative, angry comments, and then go and mow their lawns. And the news cycle moves on. I've had people attack me - and worse, be wrong about me - on the internet, which is a gross feeling, and sometimes I get enraged witnessing the sheer inhumanity of things people say about others, but I think #4 is the most important. I never engage with trolls anymore - my strategy is to go and say something nice somewhere else instead.
Blimey, that must have been a tough gig. Seeing that kind of recreational cruelty every day must have taken a toll. (Also on the people leaving the shitty comments, but - good luck to them, because if they're wanting other folk to care, they're picking exactly the wrong way to make that happen).
I've wondered for a while about the folk who moderate the BBC News comment threads, which always melt down into hyper-opinionated, hyper-cynical "those people are the worst" rants, almost always anonymously. Mucking out those stables every day must be hell - in a way you probably understand all too well.
But - this also clearly makes you a very good community moderator, because you've seen how bad it can get, you know what that looks like, and you know what a waste it is. So what would be your best advice for creating a positive, curious and respectful commenting environment? What tricks & tips have worked for you in defusing the worst idiots?
(And: have you ever written all this up as a full essay? I bet it would be fascinating to read and get a good bit of attention.)
It was tough! It got a bit easier once they brought in bots that got rid of the worst of it. But it was still inane and repetitive with a side of nastiness. Would highly not recommend that job to anyone! I admire people who moderate special interest forums voluntarily!
I think the best strategy for creating a positive and respectful commenting environment is to have a clear purpose and written rules, and stick to them. If it's a case of 'anything goes' then it will degenerate FAST and be near-impossible to rehabilitate. It is an exhausting task to moderate any kind of online forum.
I think in interactions where someone really disagrees with a comment and feels the need to counter what they've said, the most important thing is not to make ad hom attacks about the person. Only respond to what they've said rather than making statements about who they are and all the reasons they're wrong (i.e. 'you're ignorant', 'you're racist'). No matter how ignorant or racist they might be, it won't help get your point across and will be removed by any good moderator, as well as shutting down any chance of dialogue.
You're right, I should write about this at some point!
I luuuurve 'Hide for everyone'. I very rarely need it on Bluesky but I deployed it every bloomin' day on Threads (which rather explains why I am no longer there). The best bit about it was that having hidden it from myself too, I found I had often genuinely forgotten what on earth they said within hours. Ommmm....
Yes, Threads is a lot more chaotic in that regard - lots of engagement farmers, rage-baiters and meme-thieves at work these days, and just a vast amount of people choosing to reply to them, which is how I get to see the worst folk. If everyone stopped replying and started Blocking, it'd become a lot less fraught, I reckon...
And yes: isn't it amazing how blocking folk feels like just enough of a response to tick that box in our brains, so we can usually stop thinking about their nonsense? Nice when that happens.
Yes, if only we could find a real-life action that works the same way so we could stop churning and suffering the torment of l'esprit de l'escalier....even years later. (Or is that just me??). If anyone DOES know a neat psychological trick for that, please do share it.
Very wise Mike. Love the ‘hide reply from everyone’ feature. Using that next time.
It is the best. Oddly calming and Zen-like. It feels like going for a walk in the countryside with a black bin-liner and filling it with rubbish: a way of channelling the annoyance of seeing that informational litter strewn over your path, and feeling at the end like you nudged the needle just a tiny bit in the right direction, from "enraging eyesore" towards "interesting conversations".
Perfect analogy
A 4 or 5 course banquet as usual, Mike. There was one case back in the 80s ( I really need to check my sources, all I can be sure of is that it occurred in the latter part of the 20th century ) where some NIMROD tied a bunch of helium ( I'm guessing again but helium sounds the most likely ) balloons to a LAWN CHAIR & just keeps going up, then floated into restricted air space. The general consensus was that it was a damn stupid stunt & he could have frozen or asphyxiated OR BOTH.
I'll have to recheck the details.
Thanks, Daniel. Yes - "Lawnchair" Larry Walters! I mentioned him here: https://everythingisamazing.substack.com/p/the-balloon-that-wouldnt-come-down I first heard about him via the Darwin Awards, for which he got an honourable mention because he survived the experience...
Larry Walters - Proof that God looks out for idiots, kids & people who watch " Jackass " the tv series too many times. The Darwin Awards was perfectly designed for people such as him !
Thanks, Mike ! You're a 1 - person data miner.
Nice one. Sometimes it’s the simple approaches that work best.
Take me back to the days of my ZX Spectrum, tin foil printer and no internet connection. Hate to say it, but Elite was better on Speccy and BBC Model B than it is now with all of its games console, internet goodness, and trolling.
I am a big fan of philosophical trolls like Diogenes the Cynic and art trolls like Maurizio Cattelan, who I suppose are not really acting in bad faith.
With online trolling, which I am lucky enough not to be subject to, I wonder to what extent people have developed antibodies to prevent the cortisol reaction you mention above? I feel utterly indifferent to trolls but remember being provoked in the past.
My sister and I use the phrase "Don't touch the poop" when thinking of engaging with trolls, it reminds you that if you do, you are also gonna get poop on you because you touched it.
Loved learning about "hide for everyone"!